005 - That Just Happened
01-20-2014, 01:10 AM
Post: #1
005 - That Just Happened
[Image: 005_image.jpg]

005 - That Just Happened
In this episode, Carson's freshly broken arm opens up a discussion on working with pain, as well as a look at the psychoactive drug Ketamine. The pair continue to look at their family relationships as well as the idea of unconditional love. Brett tells the story of integrating a powerful fear-based emotional charge, and the duo share their thoughts on the effect of the digital age on conscious evolution. \m/

Permanent Download Link: http://traffic.libsyn.com/seekanddestroy...PPENED.mp3

Related Links
Disturbing video of person's arm going backwards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn-dF2Ab1ao
Ram Dass - Fierce Grace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYXOfc-u5dk
Ketamine: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/ketamine.shtml
Real Love (book): http://www.reallove.com/
Ant colony video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozkBd2p2piU&sns=em

Credits: The intro background music is "Deep eyes 5" by Divinesong, licensed under Creative Commons. The intro also uses the sound "Toilet Flush" by gchand1, licensed under CC Sampling Plus 1.0.
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01-22-2014, 07:14 PM
Post: #2
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
Great 5th podcast guys metal

About a year ago, I heard some guy talk about how human beings dramatically over estimate their ability to remember things. Since then, I have been using a program called Evernote to take notes on everything work-related. I type notes during every phone conversation, during training sessions, etc... It has been so useful for me that I have started doing that with lots of things outside of work. So last night when I was listening to the podcast, I popped open Evernote and took some notes. Perhaps these will be of interest to someone. I also included my thoughts and experiences about some of the content.

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Carson described a nasty ass skating boarding accident where he shattered his elbow. Discussion on pain as one typically experiences versus witnessing witnessing the pain. Carson talked about just letting himself cry in front of his wife and kids about this traumatic experience, and how healthy and relieving this felt.

Ram Dass documentary - Fierce Grace - highly recommended by Brett

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYXOfc-u5dk
* it is about his life before a stroke and then his life after the stroke

the yawning discussion as an energy release was really interesting

discussion on the I.C.U. process

* Robert Monroe's book "Journey's Out of the Body" has a passage that discusses something like this. Every time he has an OBE experience, he learns to cultivate it and do it at will. He takes notes every time he has an experience. He talks about how when he leaves the body, he feels things attach to him, and he pushes them away. He refers to them like 8 to 10-inch sucker-fish that attach to him. This sounds very much like Michael Brown's parasitic description from TPP.


discussion when Carson apologizes to his Mom after a blowup, with the recognition that at the root of the anger is that he genuinely wants his Mom to realize that she is wrong about a lot of things (i.e. - the earth is older than 10,000 years, the CEO of Nestle really did say that people should pay for water, etc...).

Brett asked about why it is important for Carson for his Mom to know how wrong she is? Why is it important for our parents to know they are wrong about things? Carson talked about how after an intense acupuncture treatment he realized that at the core of it is a longing for his Mom to love him unconditionally as he is. Along with this came the realization that all he needs is self-love.

Carson mention a book called "Real Love" by Greg Baer...
http://www.amazon.com/Real-Love-Greg-Bae...=greg+baer


After listening to Brett talk about how it is impossible for young children to feel 100% unconditional love all of the time, I have spent time thinking about this and observing this with my 4-year old daughter, and I see his point. For example, my wife got snowed in at work yesterday and had to stay at a hotel. From the adult perspective, it is obvious that was the right decision. It would have been extremely dangerous for my wife to attempt to drive home. But from my daughter's perspective, she was very hurt and very upset that her nighttime routine was disrupted. Even with my wife and I using Skype so my wife could read to her and sing to her like we always do, she was still wounded at some level. The unconditional love that children crave is unobtainable. When I got her dressed this morning, she had a tantrum because she wanted to wear a sleeveless summer dress. I tried to rationally explain how today is extremely cold for that type of dress, but she interpreted as "you never let me get what I want". Of course that is not true, but she viewed it that I didn't respect her.

I was looking for an opportunity to "respond instead of react", and I got it already this morning. I was having a work conversation with a high strung co-worker, and she has this very annoying trait of talking about 95% of the time in every work related conversation, and as soon as the other person begins to talk, she quickly interrupts after half a sentence is out. It drives me nuts, and occasionally I definitely react aggressively to match her style, and we sound like 2 lunatics talking over each over for 10+ seconds until I win and demonstrate how it feels Biggrin. I know that is a stupid way to deal with it, and I know what she does isn't personal because she does this with everyone. I started thinking about why it drives me nuts. Part of if is just the simple frustration of not being able to communicate that anyone would feel, but part of it is a story I make up that this is a sign that she doesn't respect me and my opinions. The reality is that she is one of the sweetest people I work with, but she just developed this very annoying talking style at some point in her life. Even though I saw it happening during my conversation with her this morning and I tried to observe myself getting annoyed, my mind still reacted during the call with a little aggression.

The funny thing about both my daughter's story this morning with the summer dress and my story with my co-worker, it was about a perceived lack of respect in both instances. It was a wounded ego based on a story that wasn't true.

anyway, back to the notes from the podcast...


Carson and Brett had an interesting discussion on linkage of the breath and present moment awareness, and well as the difference between deep mantra meditation versus connected breathing meditation.

discussed Ketamine experiences versus Astral Projection experiences.

Brett discussed intense fear experience that came up during a dream (during TPP), where he hears this scary frickin voice coming behind him during a presentation. He awoke from dream with an intense fear to get out of bed, but he also recognized that this was a chance to deal with the underlying fear issue. He decides to face the fear and get out of bed and walk around the house, and sat down and did TPP breathing exercises until the fear was gone. This sounds like the approach used in TPP, where you embrace the uncomfortable feelings that come up in TPP and then use breathing exercises to integrate them.

During TPP you learn that it is important to realize that bad shitty emotions are good because it is the universe giving you an opportunity to work on what you need to.

Carson talked about youtube video of a documentary an abandoned ant colony, and how the sophistication of the design suggests a universal mind amongst the ants that built it. I believe this is the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFg21x2sj-M

Brett mentioned book called "You Are Not a Gadget" by Jaron Lanier that talks about the hive mind and the internet...
http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-Gadget...395&sr=8-1
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01-22-2014, 09:50 PM
Post: #3
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
Thanks for the notes, regedit! They'll definitely come in handy when discussing the show as this episode was actually recorded three months ago. We're currently in the process of closing that gap so that the releases are a bit more current which will hopefully make it easier for us to remember what the fuck we were talking about. Biggrin

regedit Wrote:But from my daughter's perspective, she was very hurt and very upset that her nighttime routine was disrupted. Even with my wife and I using Skype so my wife could read to her and sing to her like we always do, she was still wounded at some level. The unconditional love that children crave is unobtainable.

Thanks for sharing your experience man. This is definitely where I was going in that discussion, although I recall having trouble coming up with a worthy example. I think you nailed it, and would definitely agree.

I should also mention for anyone interested that one of the later chapters of The Presence Process deals a lot with this, and that's where my perspective on the subject was rooted. I wouldn't recommend skipping ahead in the book unless you aren't planning on doing the actual process though.

regedit Wrote:The funny thing about both my daughter's story this morning with the summer dress and my story with my co-worker, it was about a perceived lack of respect in both instances. It was a wounded ego based on a story that wasn't true.

metal
And I post that as a guy with the word "RESPECT" tattooed in three inch letters across his stomach. [Image: 2091.gif]
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01-23-2014, 10:20 AM
Post: #4
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
First off... I'm totally getting Evernote! Biggrin

regedit Wrote:Why is it important for our parents to know they are wrong about things?

This is a profound question for me, both as a parent and as a kid... and I don't have an immediate answer. Thanks for posing this question as I'm excited to just let it percolate for a while and see what comes out.

Regarding children being able to accept unconditional love... I didn't agree with Brett on the podcast (don't remember if I said this out loud or not). I felt that if true unconditional love was present for the child that they would have little problem accepting it (especially if it was always offered right from birth, meaning they didn't know conditional love yet). In hindsight, I can relegate that it could be true that children may not always be able to accept unconditional love simply due to a lack of situational understanding. This sort of points to the truth that we can not mitigate all conditioning for our kids.... no matter how clearly perceived life is, no matter how open, honest and loving we are, our children are going to develop hangups and there's not much we can do to stop this from happening. That said, sharing unconditional love with our kids whether they can accept it or not, seems to be a more logical approach than sharing conditional love with them simply because they may not be able to accept unconditional love anyway.

On a side note, my daughter Amrita has a favorite dress that not only will she wear 5 out of 7 days a week, but she will often sleep in it as well. We've learned that this is not "a hill to die on" (as my Mom would say Tongue) so we just let her wear whatever she wants... she *is* a girl after all. Shock Hahaha. It's funny actually... my wife is fairly "tomboy-ish" but Amrita is such a girly-girl it's hilarious. Her Nana asked her the other day what toy she wanted as a treat from the store and she refused to get anything except for a pink tutu... which she ended up wearing on her head like an afro. Lol

Regarding your co-worker regedit.... I know too many people like this. Seriously. It actually seems to be a prerequisite for employment on the railway. Xd What I have found with people who have this tendency is that they have been conditioned to believe that no one hears them (which may or may not be true). When I encounter people like this I almost always find myself in a "bucket holding" situation where my role is to simply hold the garbage pail out for them to puke into (aka, I simply stay present with them and listen intently to what they are saying). I usually try to just maintain compassionate eye contact and "hold space" for them while they empty out all of the pent up emotional and mental garbage they've been holding on to. Then, when they have exhausted themselves or I am "cued" to close the bucket we usually just sit and quietly enjoy the cleared space (if they don't go into overthinking, which can happen with some). Next time you are in conversation with you co-worker you may want to try this. Just let her talk while you listen without trying to get a word in. See what happens. Smile

When I look at the concept of "respect" all I can see is a childhood desire to feel validated and worthy. I think that the need for respect stems from feelings of unworthiness and insecurity. Personally, I lost a lot of the desire to feel respected once the majority of the "I am unworthy" conditioning was seen as untrue and once I dropped the need for other spiritual people to validate my path as "correct." Now, the only respect I desire is self-respect... and that's not always easy to give/receive.

metal
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01-25-2014, 12:21 AM (This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 11:12 AM by regedit.)
Post: #5
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
Quote:On a side note, my daughter Amrita has a favorite dress that not only will she wear 5 out of 7 days a week, but she will often sleep in it as well. We've learned that this is not "a hill to die on" (as my Mom would say Tongue) so we just let her wear whatever she wants... she *is* a girl after all. Shock Hahaha. It's funny actually... my wife is fairly "tomboy-ish" but Amrita is such a girly-girl it's hilarious. Her Nana asked her the other day what toy she wanted as a treat from the store and she refused to get anything except for a pink tutu... which she ended up wearing on her head like an afro.

That is so awesome man. We are living the same experience. What you described about your daughter sounds exactly like my daughter, and what you described about your wife sounds exactly like my wife. Even my daughter's name slightly resembles your daughter's name.

Quote: Next time you are in conversation with you co-worker you may want to try this. Just let her talk while you listen without trying to get a word in. See what happens.
I will try it. In this case though, my co-worker is really sweet when we are talking about anything not related to work. The issue only comes up when we shift to a work conversation. I have observed this a lot and I have thought about it a lot, and I have come to the conclusion that she is actually very insecure about talking about work content, and that she talks non-stop and even quicker when someone else starts to talk. I work in a technical field. It is almost as if she is afraid of any back and forth because she is nervous about it. You would think that since I have come to that conclusion that I would be so insanely patient. I am actually pretty patient and a pretty good listener, yet I get so upset with myself when the ego and need for respect take over occasionally. Thankfully it doesn't happen often. So much room for evolution on my part I guess. I completely agree with your comment about where the need for respect comes from.
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01-27-2014, 10:59 AM (This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 11:16 AM by CarsonZi.)
Post: #6
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
I totally got the same feeling man... our family lives sound very similar. And what's even more uncanny is that I also work in a technical field (I work for General Electric as a locomotive specialist). Weird. Biggrin

Regarding listening, something I have noticed... on the outside I can appear to be listening intently but if on the inside I am not present with what is being said, the other person seems to react like they don't feel heard. And in the exact same situation, if I appear to be listening on the outside and am actually present with what is being said then the person speaking seems to relax and seem less in need of being heard, because they feel heard. I'm not saying that this is what is happening with your co-worker, I have no idea what's happening there, I'm just saying that something I have noticed is that no matter what the outer appearance, people know if we are truly listening.

What's pretty interesting is that the podcast Brett and I recorded on Saturday had a lot of content related to us being bad listeners. Tongue

On a side note, the inquiry you spurred got absorbed this weekend and what came back was that there are two reasons we (read I) want our (my) parents to know when they are wrong...
1. I want to be seen as an equal, not just their "child."
2. Parents tend to try to posit themselves as someone who is a "teacher" to their child... this (for me) makes me hypersensitive to any kind of hypocrisy and/or wrong judgements. There is a tendency for me to expect perfection of someone who willingly takes a position of leadership and guidance and a need to hold them accountable. This is probably a huge hangup for me that has yet to be investigated, but this inquiry has started that ball rolling as well... so again, thank you for spawning such a great thread of investigation!

metal
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01-31-2014, 05:23 PM
Post: #7
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
Hey Carson! Had a thought about the Mom acceptance issue…

Do you know that it appears as though you're mirroring each other exactly?

She's picked this far-out belief, creationism, and she's built an identity around it. She gets upset when you reject creationism because she's taking it as a wholesale rejection of her being.

The stuff you've chosen to live by, yoga and nonduality (maybe drugs should be included too), is no less outlandish to mainstream thinking than creationism. And it seems like you've taken her complete inability to accept what you've chosen to live by as a rejection of you.

I think creationists argue that the world is 4.5 billion years old because it was created that way. While it seems like BS, it's an argument that you can't possibly disprove. A yogi might say that the world is created anew in each moment. One is an adopted belief. The other is arrived at through direct experience (although it could be an adopted belief). Neither position is mainstream and neither position can be effectively disproven.

So you've both chosen to live by principles that most people disagree with and you both say something along the lines of, "I just wish she/he could accept me the way I am." You're both setting yourselves up for experiencing rejection.

It seems like the kind of pattern that could go back generations and generations.

If your kids decide that yoga is a crock, then you know you're onto something. :-)

Anyway, you're completely within your rights to tell me I'm full of shit, but it was an observation I thought you might want to know about (even if it's to tell me I'm full of shit). :-D

Love!
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01-31-2014, 07:37 PM
Post: #8
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
Munch


Biggrin


Whippoorwill Wrote:The other is arrived at through direct experience (although it could be an adopted belief).

Sorry to threadjack, but this line really struck something that I've been looking into a bit recently. I've (reluctantly) started inquiring into where exactly my current "spiritual" framework is drawing its information from, and have, without looking very hard, found more than I'd like to be from adopted belief.

The next podcast recording is not gonna be a fun one for me. Doh
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02-01-2014, 12:22 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2014 12:28 AM by CarsonZi.)
Post: #9
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
Hi Whippoorwill and thanks for calling me on my shit. Biggrin

whippoorwill Wrote:Do you know that it appears as though you're mirroring each other exactly?

Believe it or not, yes. I *do* actually know that often when we rub people the wrong way, or are rubbed the wrong way, it is because 'the other' is doing something we ourselves do (in one way or another) and subconsciously this triggers us. I have for a long time seen much of my mother in me, but the conditioning is very deep and it is taking a gawd awful long time to unwind it all

whippoorwill Wrote:She's picked this far-out belief, creationism, and she's built an identity around it. She gets upset when you reject creationism because she's taking it as a wholesale rejection of her being.

The stuff you've chosen to live by, yoga and nonduality (maybe drugs should be included too), is no less outlandish to mainstream thinking than creationism. And it seems like you've taken her complete inability to accept what you've chosen to live by as a rejection of you.

I soooooo want to nitpick this, but I realize that is just me resisting the truth. Doh I want to say "Her far out belief is right-wing fundamentalist Christianity and I don't live by any idea (anymore) in yoga, non-duality or drugs" but I can see that that is just me fighting the truth. You are right. Not in the specifics, but in the feeling of rejection on both sides.

whippoorwill Wrote:I think creationists argue that the world is 4.5 billion years old because it was created that way.

Well, I don't know about other "creationists" but my mom thinks the world is only 10,000-12,000 years old. Shock To me that's ludicrist, but I do fall into the category of folks who could say that the world is created anew in each moment, so, yeah, you're right... I'm just as crazy as my mom is. Xd

whippoorwill Wrote:If your kids decide that yoga is a crock, then you know you're onto something.

Me and Deanna used to joke about this when I was super into yoga. Now that yoga is sort of a "thing of the past" for me it wouldn't bother me... but should my kids reject skateboarding... lord god, bury me now. Lol

I'd love to tell you you were full of shit, but, unfortunately I know you are not. I don't LIKE it. But I'm at a point now where thankfully at least I can admit it... you're totally right. Tongue

Love,
Carson metal
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02-01-2014, 03:48 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2014 12:27 PM by regedit.)
Post: #10
RE: 005 - That Just Happened
The insomnia is killing me tonight, but at least I don't have to work tomorrow. Whippoorwill, I found your post very interesting. I am not comparing my situation to Carson's, because it is not. But like a lot of people, I still have some issues with my parents. As my parents hit their 60's and 70's, they became awesome. But I still hold onto certain memories. One that still bugs me is that I was dating this incredibly sexy black girl about 20 years ago for about 18 months. My mom flipped out over that, and I remember the call in detail where she told me how it wouldn't be fair to the kids if they were mulatto. And the one time I brought my girlfriend over to my parents house, my Mom didn't even get off the couch or make eye contact with her. I was so fucking pissed, and that memory still enters my mind. I lost a lot of respect for her at that point. But your post made me really think about how it must be to have me as a son, and I am sure it is no picnic. Catholicism is so important to my parents, and I laugh at it. I can guarantee you there are plenty of memories that my parents have of me that are not good, and probably deservedly so. Your post really made me think about what it must be like to be my mother and father, which is not something I have spent a lot of time thinking about.
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