002 - I Don't Fucking Know
01-05-2014, 07:31 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2014 08:29 PM by brett.)
Post: #1
002 - I Don't Fucking Know
[Image: 002_image.jpg]

002 - I Don't Fucking Know
On this episode, Brett and Carson inquire into the spiritual value of cocaine, and evaluate week two of “The Presence Process”. Carson gives an update on his inability to apologize, and Brett reaches out to his father after being on non-speaking terms for three years. Wrapping up the episode, An inquiry into their goals on the spiritual path brings the duo into unexpected territory. \m/

Permanent Download Link:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/seekanddestroy...T_KNOW.mp3

Related Links
The Presence Process: http://www.thepresenceportal.com
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01-08-2014, 11:40 AM
Post: #2
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
STILL can't find a goal for the path. Shrug

snd
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01-09-2014, 12:35 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2014 12:36 PM by whippoorwill.)
Post: #3
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
Haha!

Well a goal implies a finite end-point.

I don't know, but I'm fond of the belief that we are infinite.

So why settle for some finite imagined endpoint, when you can leave it all open?

Still, the illusion of goals seems help us get off our butts.

When the goals are gone, what's left? What motivates us to act?
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01-09-2014, 04:39 PM
Post: #4
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
I think doing this podcast takes balls. I have listened to 2 of them, and I definitely appreciate them. In the one I just finished, it was pretty cool to hear Carson (I think that was who was talking) talk about his reaction to his father getting a call from a creditor, and listening to Brett have the thought about how the only insults that ever hurt us are the ones that a part of us actually believes. That was pretty cool, and certainly true for me, even if I never thought about it that way. The irony is that what Brett was proposing didn't apply to Carson, but it did for me for a specific situation.
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01-09-2014, 07:39 PM
Post: #5
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
What up whipporwill and regedit! Thanks for listening and welcome to the forums! hairmetal

whipporwill Wrote:When the goals are gone, what's left? What motivates us to act?

That was definitely the conundrum of this podcast. While it would seem that we'd all just sit around on the couch without goals, Carson quickly pointed out to me that somehow that doesn't happen and the flow of life continues regardless.

In my experience, once one is able to surrender completely to this flow, it pretty much takes over the show, and the "i" is left as a mere observer to the process. I'm still a bit unclear as to whether this shift is active or simply based in perception. In any case, once that is in place, this life is perceived as a tool of "that", and goals are replaced by intention. Much easier to do when the mind agrees with the unfolding, of course.

So is it even possible to sit on the couch for an extended period of time? Yep, and I've sure as hell done it, but in my experience its usually due to a strong resistance somewhere. And it sucks. Biggrin

Your thoughts?

regedit Wrote:I think doing this podcast takes balls. I have listened to 2 of them, and I definitely appreciate them. In the one I just finished, it was pretty cool to hear Carson (I think that was who was talking) talk about his reaction to his father getting a call from a creditor, and listening to Brett have the thought about how the only insults that ever hurt us are the ones that a part of us actually believes. That was pretty cool, and certainly true for me, even if I never thought about it that way. The irony is that what Brett was proposing didn't apply to Carson, but it did for me for a specific situation.

Thanks regedit.. I think I speak for both Carson and I in saying that this has been nothing short of a serious practice in vulnerability. After 6 months of recording, my balls are just now starting to get used to the idea of people actually listening to the podcast. Xd

Stoked to hear that you were able to find something useful in our ramblings. That type of feedback definitely makes throwing our lives on a platter very worth it. And also helps with the whole balls thing haha.. Cheers
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01-10-2014, 12:52 AM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2014 01:11 AM by CarsonZi.)
Post: #6
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
whipporwill Wrote:...the illusion of goals seems help us get off our butts.

I think "the illusion" is the key here... which you obviously already know or else you wouldn't have included it as a caveat. Biggrin Having a goal implies a belief in someone who has that goal. When the 'someone' becomes as illusory as the goal, it becomes obvious that things are just happening because they need to... and maybe that can even be whittled away to just "things are happening".

I think that if/when we can truly relax around having goals, setting intentions, planning our outcomes etc then Life shows us that it continues on as always, despite our lack of "steering" and it often times becomes even smoother than it was when we were believing we had some semblance of control as we pretended we were steering the ship. Tongue

snd
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01-10-2014, 01:03 AM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2014 01:12 AM by CarsonZi.)
Post: #7
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
regetit Wrote:I think doing this podcast takes balls. I have listened to 2 of them, and I definitely appreciate them. In the one I just finished, it was pretty cool to hear Carson (I think that was who was talking) talk about his reaction to his father getting a call from a creditor, and listening to Brett have the thought about how the only insults that ever hurt us are the ones that a part of us actually believes. That was pretty cool, and certainly true for me, even if I never thought about it that way. The irony is that what Brett was proposing didn't apply to Carson, but it did for me for a specific situation.

Thanks for the feedback, it's nice to hear that we aren't just diddling ourselves Jerk and that you've have enjoyed the podcast so far. Biggrin It was actually Brett who's pappy got the call from the creditors, but no matter, I found it really enlightening to realize that the insults that hurt us the most are the ones we subconsciously/unconsciously believe. Glad you found that insight applied to a situation for you as well. horns
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01-10-2014, 08:43 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2014 08:47 PM by whippoorwill.)
Post: #8
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
Hi Brett! Hi Carson!

This podcast, and the others too, are really good! Thanks for setting all this up!

Quote:That was definitely the conundrum of this podcast. While it would seem that we'd all just sit around on the couch without goals, Carson quickly pointed out to me that somehow that doesn't happen and the flow of life continues regardless.

Goals and ambition disappeared over a year ago. I'm kept pretty busy with the kids, the husband, the house, the job and all that, so even though there are no goals anymore, I still get up at 5:30 and I go to bed after 10:00. Even so, it feels like a passive existence -- like walking in whatever way I'm pushed. But maybe it just feels like that because I can't see where I'm going. Smile Still, I can't shake the feeling that there is something more, and I wonder what it is.

Quote:When the 'someone' becomes as illusory as the goal, it becomes obvious that things are just happening because they need to... and maybe that can even be whittled away to just "things are happening".

The way experience happens right now, either everything is experienced as illusory or everything is experienced as real. (Pain tends to be VERY real.) Biggrin I oscillate between those two modes of experience, but there's a trap that I keep falling into where I'm in "everything is real" mode, but I pretend that that I'm illusory, because I mentally think that's the way I'm "supposed" to be. It sets me up for all kinds of grief, and might be contributing to the "passive existence" feeling mentioned above. Biggrin

Anyway… Just flinging stuff up here to see what sticks… I'm sure I sound VERY confused. Xd

Thanks again for putting this out there!
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01-10-2014, 09:32 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2014 09:40 PM by CarsonZi.)
Post: #9
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
Hi Whippoorwill!

whippoorwill Wrote:....it feels like a passive existence -- like walking in whatever way I'm pushed. But maybe it just feels like that because I can't see where I'm going. Smile Still, I can't shake the feeling that there is something more, and I wonder what it is.

My feeling is that the deeper we go into a/the "non-linear perspective" the less it feels like a "passive existence" and the more meaningful everything becomes. From a linear perspective things always seem to make sense in hindsight, but not in the moment... this happened so this could happen so this could happen etc etc, but in the moment we often resist what is happening because we are blind to the "larger purpose". When we settle deeper and more permanently into a non-linear perspective (one in which all is now) the "meaning" seems to permeate every moment and is perceived as such... even if there is no verbal interpretation or mental understanding to this perceiving. (edit: on re-reading this, I realize I'm not clear even in the slightest. I mean to say that from a perspective in which time is viewed as an illusory concept the "passive existence" feeling seems to transition into a "everything is magic" kind of feeling. Probably not *any* more clear. hahahaha)

In a sense though, it seems that things are generally "passive" once the identification with the separate self is seen as illusory. The only one who can have a "personal will" is the "person" who we (at least in theory) now know is only a tightly held knitting of conceptual beliefs. I think it becomes a bit of a paradox here because as the identification with the separate self loosens and the one with a "will" takes a step back and lets go of trying to control life, life takes on a bit of a "magical" feeling and it almost *feels* like we are now unlimited in what we can and can't do... like by removing the desire to "steer" we are now free to steer wherever we want. The mind recoils in horror at the contradiction here, but that's how it feels to me anyway. (I think "we" is the operative word here... "we" are all doing "this" together and are all as in control as each other... which is either not at all or completely. HA! )

(Please forgive me if I am not very clear... I've been jacked on cold meds for two days just so I can breathe Chemist Shock hahaha)

whippoorwill Wrote:The way experience happens right now, either everything is experienced as illusory or everything is experienced as real. (Pain tends to be VERY real.) Biggrin I oscillate between those two modes of experience, but there's a trap that I keep falling into where I'm in "everything is real" mode, but I pretend that that I'm illusory, because I mentally think that's the way I'm "supposed" to be. It sets me up for all kinds of grief, and might be contributing to the "passive existence" feeling mentioned above.

I remember a point in my own journey that resembles that whippoorwill... I think this eventually levels out to include both simultaneously. Meaning, things are seen both as completely illusory and completely real at the same time. It's like multiple perspectives can be embraced within one "wider" perspective. That, or the question of "illusory or real" becomes completely irrelevant because both are seen as concepts and nothing more.

Thanks for taking the time to hash this shit out with us!! Xd

Rock
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01-15-2014, 08:20 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2014 08:25 PM by whippoorwill.)
Post: #10
RE: 002 - I Don't Fucking Know
This scene from Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds' End popped into my head today. It seemed kind of appropriate to this topic:

Will Turner: Barbossa, a heading!
Barbossa: Aye... we're good and lost now.
Elizabeth Swann: Lost?
Barbossa: For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was.
Ragetti: We're gaining speed.
Barbossa: Aye!
Will Turner: To starboard stations! All hands to stations!
Barbossa: Nay, belay that. Let her run straight and true!


Biggrin

Copied from: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001222/quotes
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